Claws of Agony

According to db.mmo-champion, the Claws of Agony and the [url=http://cata.wowhead.com/item=63537]Claws of Torment[/url] are an item set called [url=http://cata.wowhead.com/itemset=951]Agony and Torment[/url]. Whats weird is that Agony is a strength offhand, while Torment is an agility mainhand.

Since both this weapon and the main hand have the same stats as other ilvl 359 one handed weapons, I think the idea is to lose 146 strength or agi (from one weapon, depending on class) while gaining the set bonus. Wowhead lists the set proc as 10% chance with no cooldown, so it right now it seems a good trade.

Well, actually DK's can't use fist weapons but I do agree that the intention is likely to make it so that the set is equally desirable for Warriors as for Rogues, Hunters and Enhancement Shaman. As much as Warriors will be willing to accept an agility-based main-hand for the set bonus, I assume the other three will be willing to accept a strength-based off-hand for it as well. It's definitely an even trade.

It won't work for rogues, the OH is too slow for combatrogues.

Slow OH are never good for rogues, and a slow OH with strength is a big dps loss. Any rogue who wants to have decent dps in the current patch should be using a 1.4 speed dagger in the off-hand and that is for Combat as well as Assassination. EJ has all the math and details if you care to investigate.

Do i smell a Enhancement set coming along? :D

The set DOES seem to be intended as something to keep enhance and single minded fury characters happy. It's a bit niche and personally i'd have been happy with another axe or 2 to cover the weapon options but this kind of works out in the end. As suggested the set bonus is intended to cover the less desirable stat depending which side you're coming from. Personally i'd be looking at the agi mainhand and the axe off. Both are (fortunately or unfortunately) trash drops from blackwing descent.

[quote]The set DOES seem to be intended as something to keep enhance and single minded fury characters happy[/quote] maybe that was the point and enhancers as well as smf warriors probably won't say no if they are proposed but... i can't say it's that interesting for them. haste is a subpar stat for both those specs, both weapon do have haste on them, and i don't think the proc would make up for this much haste and the lack of agi/str on one of the weapon.

I'd like to know whether or not enchantments show up in any way on these.

Weapon enchants DO show on these, it covers the entire hand.

I have this set on my enh. sham, It seems to have a 40-45 sec icd. I tried to push it lower by waiting for it to proc then activating hero/lust, lifeblood, speed pot, unleashed wind, wf totem and with hurricane on one of the weapons and thundering skyflare in my meta. My speed was well below 1s but I couldnt get the 2nd proc during that 40-45 sec window IMO they need to chage these weapons to a ppm with no icd.

Kind of stange that top end raiding gear is BOE these days...

[quote]Kind of stange that top end raiding gear is BOE these days...[/quote] This is nothing new there have been boe raiding epics all the way back to Molten Core. And they were even Tier pieces back then.

[url=http://www.wowhead.com/zone=2717]Molten Core[/url], the first raid started the tradition, though it may have gone a bit overboard. [url=http://www.wowhead.com/item=16828]Tier 1 gear[/url] [url=http://www.wowhead.com/item=16830]was BoE[/url]. Just the belt, and bracers, but still! BoE tier gear. Crazy.

OK i did some tests on my warrior (my screen shot) And im losing 800-1000 dps vs my TG set :(. If you are a warrior Pass those for some shamy :) Till they buff SMF.

If all you did was switch your existing spec talent point from TG to SMF and keep your rotation the same, you probably would see a dps drop of the magnitude reported. You would need to change your spec from 3 points in deep wounds to two points in deep wounds, moving that other point over to 3 points in incite, as HS is a bigger dps boost in SMF, and modify your rotation to prioritize Slam over RB, and pool rage for HS - a very different rotation than TG. Point being a quick/easy test of the suitability of these fist weapons for SMF probably wouldn't show their capability in a skilled SMF warriors hands. Currently there is still a gap between TG and SMF, but it's a few hundred DPS, not 1k, and for a warrior who doesn't have two i359 2hr's this set would probably be an upgrade. Unfortunately being BoE they'll see the AH and likely go to waste.

Are there any hunters around that have experience with these in a raid? We currently do not have any raiding enh shaman nor dps warriors for main spec. I am a MT for my guild with main spec prot off spec SMF at the moment, obviously for certain fights when only one tank is needed. However, we do have a few raiding hunters, would they be viable for the hunter to use or a SMF off spec? Common sense tells me better for my warrior due to at least the weapon damage being good for me, and the hunter losing out on 146 Agi for a trade of a proc chance of 1000 haste, but if someone has any numbers I would be interested to hear about them.

Edit: After thinking a bit about this should we just forget the set bonus and break it up to the class(es) that could use the main stats more?

Thank you

Hunters should be using twohanders in Cataclysm, due to more stats and the [url=http://www.wowhead.com/spell=95471]agility enchant[/url].

As a hunter I was interested when I saw this 2 set bonus could proc off of ranged attacks but unfortunately for hunters the strength on the Claws of Agony ruined them. As far as hunter weapons go [item=59474] is BiS until the heroic version is acquired from what I've seen, and is easy enough to obtain. If for some reason in the future the strength is changed to agility then this 2 set would be awesome for hunters, better than [item=59474] imo! Keep in mind that all melee weapons are just stat items for hunters, and so the higher/better stats prevail.

So how much would something like this cost?

Way more than its worth.

This thing is so dumb at this point in time. Half the attack power and no crit compared to an agi weapon. Seeing a shaman wearing this would make me cry. Str hasn't been useful for shamans since BC days, only reason we like Cookie's Tenderizer is the 2.80 speed for Lava Lash and Stormstrike. This weapon is just a bad piece, as SMF spec is just not up to par with TG at this point in time either.

I got both pieces of the set last on my SMF warr, first trip into BWD and they each dropped within two pulls of one another. The OH is amazing for an SMF warrior. Hit and expertise would be better but, well. Beggars can't be choosers. The thing to note here is, as most of you have pointed out, the disparity in stats between the OH and MH. It seems blizz wanted to make these equally viable, and thus equally flawed, to either enh sham or smf warr. I noticed an immediate drop in my DPS -except during the set bonus proc- with these equipped. I'm already slightly undergeared and the loss of STR on my MH hurt badly. SMF warriors will need to make up the STR so gem accordingly. Right now these are a viable, if slightly flawed, weapon set for us. Now the real story here - these things are going to tear face in 4.1. With the 40% buff to white damage SMF is getting, haste priority will skyrocket, and the haste on these is unbelievable. With the proc up and hurricane on them, my speed is well below 1.0. Until 4.1 however, reforge.

why would an enhance shaman want to use the strength weapon when they can just get an axe from nef or something that will dps boost. I mean, enhance shamans dont need haste and so having the second strength claw would just be a waste of a weapon slot - imo.i think the ideal weapon choice for enhance would be torment claws and magmigor's bite/axe from nef. even better, two axes from nef.

No one ever said this was a BiS discussion. Yes, axes from Nef are indubitably better but, as Nef is arguably the hardest raid encounter in the game at the moment, infinitely harder to attain than trolling the AH for these babies. The point being made is that the 1k haste buff makes it a [i]viable[/i] set for Shamans. So basically congratulations for stating the obvious and adding absolutely nothing to the discussion.

He did not. Notice he said haste is crap for shamans? a whole lotta crap is still crap.

For what it is worth, I am an Enhancement Shaman and I raid with the set. I am not fully epic'd out (356 equiped at the time of my last raid); but i suspect that quite a few shaman are have logs on World of Logs...here's the logs from my last raid::[url=http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/es82luxzeyey8hif/]27MAR11[/url] In the following fight: considering the top is at 21k, I'm near 200th with the mid 17k's, and the gearing differences I'd have to say it is a viable weapon set. Most nearly a [url=http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/es82luxzeyey8hif/details/5/?s=1174&e=1484]18% uptime for the 1000 haste proc[/url] (click on the "Buffs gained" tab) is not bad for a movement fight (Atrimedes for those who care not to click). I will say that there are more desirable weapons for an Enh Shaman, but until you down Nef (28% and working on it...as an off-spec healer lawl) they are definately raid worthy. And again, as far as haste being crap for Enh shaman...why did Blizz give us abilities like Flurry, WF totem, Unleashed Elements with Windfury and such? Stacking haste--or any stat--without some balance is just bad, but speaking out against a proc from a weapon set is kinda silly when the other alternative is killing Nef and winning rolls/DKP to get the axes to replace them.

Haste is sub-par for shamans BECAUSE of all those procs you mentioned. Shamans come up against their speed caps very quickly. They also get minimal synergistic benefit from hitting faster, besides maelstrom procs. Maelstrom procs are all very well, but LB5M has fallen down the priority list a bit, and we're very close to GCD locked anyway.

What annoys me is, they made it so darn niche. From the comments, and looking at the stats, it's obvious they wanted a "kinda-semi-maybe"set for enh shammies and SMH warrs, right? Um, what about the OTHER Dual-Wielders who might get any benefit from them? NOPE! "Let's make it a fist weapon! Nobody actually plays DW Frost on DKS, right?"

Would there have been any class conflicts if they made them axes or maces? AFAIK, shamans, warriors, and rogues can all use axes and maces... Why the DK hate?

Yes, I know they're a sub-par SET for Frost. I'm saying they're also about equally sub-par for either of the specs they're designed for. It's just irritating being locked out of a good off-hand with decent (Str and Mastery, that is. Haste is bleh) stats for my class, leaving it only viable as a stand-alone item for one spec. Heck, one SUB-spec! (specifically SMH, rather than Fury generally)

what class wood use this off hand is to slow and str ang agi warriors dont want agi and rogues and shamans and hunters dont want str now that they get 2 ap-1 agi bliz failed again gg tards

I think your name should be "retardlord" instead of "roguelord." I feel immeasurably dumber for having read your post. Punctuation? Spelling? Actually stating something in a way that makes sense and can be understood? Why bother when you can write a bunch of illegible garbage!

A wise man once said...,

[b]"If you try to please [u]EVERYBODY[/u], then you won't please [u]ANYBODY[/u]!"[/b]

This [url=http://www.wowhead.com/item=63538]item[/url] [url=http://www.wowhead.com/item=63537]set[/url] is an absolutely perfect example of what that man was talking about. Of the 10 classes in WoW, every single one of them that [i][b]can[/b][/i] equip this item set cannot help but be dissapointed with it in some way. In a game where everyone's greatest goal in life is to top the DPS charts, there is not a single player that would be commended by his fellow raiders for bringing this item set into battle (I'm talking about using the two-piece SET, which is obviously what Blizzard had in mind when they designed it).

Sorry Blizzard, I've tried to justify your design theories on this item set, but the community has spoken, and I can officially say that your development of this weapon set was a [b]COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME[/b].

Very very true. Although the set-bonus could outweigh the loss of strength/agility, 1000 haste is just too bad. Neither enhancement shaman nor SMF-warriors like haste. Give it Mastery. Or just implement a swapping option, some NPC, or quest, where you change the agility claw for your strength claw. Hell, then they even could implement a fast agility offhand-claw, for combat rogues.

I bought the claws of torment from a guildie for 3k...Does this mean I shouldn't buy the claws of agony? I was using the perferators, while I do lose the sockets, I get some Nice agility and attack power from the set. Because attack power is entirely derived from strength and Agility, depending on your class.

o_0 LUCKY! >.< torment cost an arm and a leg, while the agony only costs 10k on my realm lol... imo depends on your class.. if fury warrior then yes(white damage got an awesome upgrade..) and besides.. What else could better impress the ladies then ripping the hands off of dragons and putting them on as gloves! you will have to beat them off with a stick!(except thats a 2hander =p)

But agonys are on the AH for 6k right now. Is that worth the gold?

my server had 4k, 3k, 2.5k, and 2k on the AH this weekend... Since I'm sitting in blues for Enhancement OS, I picked this up to replace my blue for only 2k and saw a 1.2k increase in my dps on a dummy. (this may also be due to greater familiarity with Enhance priority)

Every time I see this weapon set, I cannot help but think Deathclaw from Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas. Looks almost exactly like their claws, which drop when you kill them.

Probably not intentional, but come on, don't tell me you don't see it too!

I see people trying to sell these all the time and feel sorry for them. Poorly itemized weapon set with a useless set bonus. I have won 3 of these and they are more useful as a [url=http://www.wowhead.com/item=52722/maelstrom-crystal]Maelstrom Crystal[/url].

no one wants to xmog these? goes very well with worgen character.

This item has been altered, along with it's match [url=http://www.wowhead.com/item=63537]Claws of Torment[/url], in 5.1 from an off hand weapon to a one hand weapon. Transmoggers rejoice if you've never seen the MH drop or in the AH!

This dropped off a [url=https://wowhead.com/npc=42803]Drakeadon Mongrel [/url]after 3 runs on Heroic Mode. Good luck!