Shred

666 bonus attack
OH SHI-

Just for clarification (and perhaps a bit of trivia), NPCs can dodge attacks from behind, PCs on the otherhand cannot. This is very easy to test. Duel a rogue and have him pop evasion and attack him a few times from the front, most if not all will be dodged. Move behind him and not a single attack will be dodged. The only exception to this rule is client-server lag in PvP, sometimes the server will register you in a different position than your client. The result is that your client will allow you to execute a "Must be behind target" move because according to your client, you are behind

Just spoke with a GM few mins ago,and yes, mastery increases shred damage.

Pounce = Cheap Shot + Garrote tbh - Even if Pounce gets resisted, the bleed effect is added.

Can someone verify this for me please?
Rate me down if you want, but this is only a question...

Can enemies dodge when attacked from behind or not?
I recall having multiple times where my Shred was dodged. I even remember reading it in the combat log: "Your Shred was dodged by (name)" or however it is written.
It may have been that as soon as I used it, the target turned around and dodged it, but I highly doubt it.

Yes, enemies can dodge attacks from behind.

Effects which increase Bleed damage also increase Shred damage.

Does anyone know if Shred is affected by mastery bonus?

Shred: Effects which increase Bleed damage also increase Shred damage
Mastery: Increases the damage done by your bleed abilities by 25.04%

Enemies can dodge if you are behind them. What they cannot do is Block or Parry, So its better to melee dps behind a target.

Suggestions should be made on the official forums, wowhead, like other sites is just for sharing information that is actually active in game, discussing uses and possible counters/problems.

Actually I don't really get what your saying either. If you post on the forums you'll have to explain yourself better.

Another thing:

I'm just tired of being unique in watching the healers castbar helplessly raising.

I guess your also tired of things like cylone, using natures grasp to instant root melees, having a last stand trinket, switching to bear if you done enough bleeds and there is incomming damage from melees, travel form, a passive snare, tigers fury, berserk and last but not least immunitiy to polymorph effects. Blizzard already stated that the homogenization has gone to far already (and right they are!). Gl tough.

This is the main attack of any raiding cat, while mangle is used only for it's debuff.

As of patch 4.0.6, it hits for 450% weapon damage baseline.After Rend and Tear and Mangle, that brings it to 702% weapon damage. However, when the tooltip says "Effects which increase Bleed damage also increase Shred damage.", it lies. Razor Claws, the Feral Druid (Cat) Mastery, which increases bleed damage done, does NOT affect it. It's a shame that Cat paw/weapon damage is so very, very low at this point.

Every time I see a feral druid using mangle instead of this as their main combo point and damage booster, I die a little inside.

I just got 50, and spent the talent point to get mangle. And i've found that mangle does just about exactly the same ammount of damage as shred. And mangle is less energy to use then shred even if you have put points into Shredding attacks.

Should I just remove shred from the action bar? It seems kind of pointless to have. Or when hit 70 and have new ranks of shred/mangle will this change?

yes it applies to bleeds already on the target, the reverse is also true

if your rip ticks for lets say 500 with mangle up and mangle expires halfway trough the next rip tic will be lower. so for pve dps its vital to keep the mangle debuff up at all times

Worth noting, Ravage requires stealth. This doesn't, so it can be done in normal combat.

Absolutely not. Mangle bumps the damage of shred up by 30%, so you should be using pounce, mangle, shred (and a 2nd shred if Omen of Clarity procs).

Incidentally, with expertise in game now, bosses chance to dodge can be brought to 0%.

26 expertise (6.5%) is enough to prevent any dodges as bosses have a 6.5% chance to dodge.

Note it is different from the 9% chance to miss a lvl73 which is only addressed by +hit.

Okay thank you, because I have read on multiple sources that enemies cannot dodge from behind, but maybe that was patched... Thanks again. =]

Madril is correct, bosses can still dodge when being attacked from behind unless they are casting. Bosses can't parry you if you stay behind them, which is also bad because when the boss parries its next attack is sped up 40%, meaning that a string of parries on slow, hard hitting bosses can get your tank gibbed. That is why it is critical for, say, rogues interrupting on Reliquary of Souls p2, to be behind the boss. It not only takes Parry off the table, but while Spirit Shock is being cast, dodge is taken off the table as well, meaning have enough hit rating so that your special attacks/M

Don't even need that when you have a arms warrior in your raid, trauma is passive for them and you can work your energy into damage more effeciëntly with a talented shred, in such situations any combo point will be from shred, unless you need/want to apply rake.

NPCs will always face you when you have aggro, the only ways to get behind it are: A. Have someone else tank it (the default mode in group pve) B. Attack before it sees you (with prowl) C. Incapacitate it in some way so it can't face you (stun with pounce or maim, hibernate if you really think it's worth the trouble) Since it's so inconvenient to stun as a druid in solo most of the time you should use mangle as it has no facing requirement.

If you have another feral druid tanking your DPS will be even greater because you wont have to reapply the Mangle debuff.

Even if you DO have a feral druid tank, you should keep doing mangle each 10 secs so Idol of Terror will proc.

How is 200% + 536 more damage than 225% + 632? I agree that mangle costs less energy, but it does not do more damage per cast. Stop getting your facts wrong.

So sad and so true :-(

That is if youre using Idol of Terror to DPS, when, to the best of my knowledge and experience the Everbloom Idol is a better choice whenever youre behind the mob (hopefully all the time), if only so you dont have to break your rotation to proc an idol.

Ah, for some reason I was thinking mangle only increased bleeds by 30%, not shreds too. Thanks

You can't take away the dodge chance... only if you're casting a spell. The thing you do remove when being behind your target is the parry effect. dodge is always a viability when meleeing your enemies unless they are spellcasters.

the mangle debuff causes shred to do 292.5% + 819 weapon damage for this rank before talents.

I tried this ability on an NPC, but it's VERY hard to pos yourself behind the target. Could anyone give me tips on how you can get fast enough behind a target to use shred?

In MoP, mangle is actually preferred as a combo point builder except in high-energy situations: http://www.icy-veins.com/feral-druid-wow-pve-dps-rotation-cooldowns-abilities (not sure of the exact math, but the basic idea is that shred does 20% more damage for 14% (40/35) more energy; even so, mangle will hit more often for the same energy (8 mangles cost the same as 7 shreds), thereby producing more combo points, which provide a greater dps boost, except, again, in cases where you have a surplus of energy).

Fully replaced mangle in the switch to WOD, as well as ALSO replacing ravage.

It's also important to note that Ravage has the same energy cost, still awards one combo point, but does more damage than shred. So, if you are not in combat and are able to Prowl, Ravage>Shred.

If for any reason you don't have OoC (while leveling with a pure feral spec for instance) but have Brutal Impact, Mangle, King of the Jungle and Rend and Tear, you can also get 2 high damage shreds in the opening combo by doing: Pounce -> Mangle -> Tiger's Fury -> Shred -> Shred. This requires TF out of CD ofc and also a fairly lag free connection :P

bosses can still dodge if your behind them but they cant parry your attacks. " Note that when a player attacks a mob from behind, the mob can still dodge. However, when a mob attacks a player from behind, the player cannot dodge. Therefore, it's important that players always face mobs that are attacking them." from http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Dodge

lol

Thanks for replying. About the class homogenization: they just gave Frenzied Regen and Leader of the Pack to warries so an interrupt would be a nice trade i think. Class homogenization is just an excuse. Those two abilities were far more unique than an interrupt. Anyway, i'd like to know if i'm the only feral who really lacks an interrupt. Having off gcd shapeshifts would be nice too, since the two forms are considered one when it comes to utilities. About the last phrase: I didn't ask for any cc abilities . An interrupt's got nothing to do with ccs or being ccd, snared except for blink (my

It's not like it's to damn hard to get 1 cp for the interrupt on your target :/ l2manage energy against casters. Btw, you do have an additional interrupt on a 15 second cd with Feral Charge (Bear).

I tested on dummy. Lv 82. Does not get bonus from mastery. My Mangle hits for 2300. My Shred hits for 3500. (with mangle debuff and bleeding target) Shred should be hitting a little bit less than: mangle x1.3 x 1.2. (aprox 3600) My mastery is giving 45%bonus to bleeding abilities. If Shred benefited from it, would have given huge numbers.

This is the druid's backstab. Used until you get "Ravage" (ambush) at 36 I think, or 34.

you cant block or parry from behind...

Except i have an enhancement shaman as my main and have never been dodged from behind even on raid bosses

That's anecdotal evidence (and as such unreliable). Produce a WWS of you on a raid boss never getting dodged, if you wish to disprove what has already been extensively researched.

Thanks for sending me this ticket. Currently, Razor Claws does not affect Shred, as this ability has no Bleed itself.

How is it possible for this to be dodged when coming out of stealth when it requires you to be behind the target and you cant be dodged from behind?

I have no idea what the point of this talent is at lvl75... when you train this, Mangle-Cat (Rank 4) is available for training too.
In TBC Shred used to be superior dmg/energy, due to it being only useable from behind, and was the main attack in the dps cycle, however at lvl75 Mangle does more dmg and costs less energy.

It was named 'Weapon Skill'. http://www.wowhead.com/item=14551 for example was a HUGE deal for raiding dps warriors back in the days of vanilla - it had high amounts of weapon skill, which did the same thing as expertise. The weapon skill deal was brought to attention towards the end of vanilla, and you could've seen bleeding edge progression warriors wearing that. It also reduced glancing hits. Check the item's page and read the old comments, if you want.

Effects which increase Bleed damage also increase Shred damage

- MAngle increases shred damage with 30%? cool...

I've had my feral druid at 70 now for about 5 months, and i can say with almost absolute certainty that shred and mangle have nothing in common. Also as Aumann stated as soon as you get mangle, it does more dps than shred even if you are talented correctly. Later on you get better shreds and than it becomes more useful. but it still is hard to say if thats better, shred has a odd number of energy cost, not to mention if you spent points and got omen of clarity or w/e its called the faster you attack the more free attacks you get. What I generally do is mangle as much as i can till that procs, than use shred. that way i keep up my damage, speed, and with rip out my mangle debuf, as well as the idol's buff.

Hi,
i'd like to introduce an idea that might solve a few of our problems.
Some ferals complain about shred's pos requrirement, but maybe the ability would just be too op if they removed it, and i dont want the feral to become an other utilitiyless class with insane burst that people just whine about (aka ret).
So here is the idea:
Claw should get a 10 sec CD whith a 3 sec lockout effect (off GCD off course), the whole thing could be added to a high level feral combat talent so that it could remain a DPS ability at low levels (above Leader of the Pack, a good
candidate could be Predatory Instincts). They could raise the Maim cooldown to 20 sec like Kidney Shot hell, even 30, i don't mind, or they could just put it on the same cooldown with Claw.
I think we just deserve a crappy off GCD off CP interrupt like all the other classes (except rets). I'm just tired of being unique in watching the healers castbar helplessly raising.
Thx for reading and if you like the idea then just keep it alive, spread it everywhere.

Also, since they nerfed Rend and Tear to the ground and we are the only spec with 2 51 pointers
(the feral tree is very bloated and this way would become even more) they could change it to a 3 rank talent.